tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8154452806180550551.post120755031815094055..comments2024-03-25T00:00:03.876-07:00Comments on South Korea Inside Out/Australia Inside Out: Freedom of Speech Threatened by Cultural Etiquette and SensitivitySmudgerhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00449129060365290678noreply@blogger.comBlogger7125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8154452806180550551.post-27526642411445360592013-08-11T22:30:27.036-07:002013-08-11T22:30:27.036-07:00That is a good point. Service is usually great fo...That is a good point. Service is usually great for other Koreans and white people, but yes, I have heard many a complaint about people of other races being given very poor service. Think this shows that normally their service standards are high, but that they lower them for some minorities out of prejudice. <br /><br />A Chinese-Canadian friend of mine commented recently how she received far better service when she visited Seoul with her White-Western friends than when she visited with her family members.Smudgerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00449129060365290678noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8154452806180550551.post-29685439569881591602013-08-11T10:41:27.016-07:002013-08-11T10:41:27.016-07:00Does the good service only apply to white people ?...Does the good service only apply to white people ? Or to other people of colors (such as black,etc. ) as well ?Michaelnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8154452806180550551.post-83423300112886491452013-08-08T17:44:32.333-07:002013-08-08T17:44:32.333-07:00Think I probably need to clear up some things here...Think I probably need to clear up some things here.<br /><br />I wasn't trying to be statistical when I said "almost equally often be right". Perhaps it was a wrong choice of words, however, I do think that most of the time people are roughly working on a 50-50 shot when they use culture as an explanation to explain behaviour. Just my opinion.<br /><br />My reference to 1984 was not to suggest that the situation at the moment is the same, as I know the state controlled everything in 1984 and that is not what is being talked about here. Merely, I was suggesting that trying to limit free expression is not beneficial to us. I was simply arguing that the current methods of conversation are one step onto the slippery slope to 1984, but maybe I could have made that clearer.<br /><br />By saying, “ People should be afraid of spouting racist nonsense, not just because of the social stigma attached to it, but because of the ridicule they receive from people who know they have no reason for it other than ignorance and prejudice.“, how much clearer could I have been? By saying they have no reason other than "ignorance and prejudice" I think that is clearly saying their opinion is nonsense. I am saying what they think is either stupid or bigoted, put in another way. I don't really understand your criticism here. I am specifically writing why they should be "afraid" of speaking also because it is relevant to the post and the issue of free speech.<br /><br />I also didn't say the song was banned. I wrote that banning it would be counter-productive, if it were to happen, but checking over what I wrote again, nowhere did I say it was banned. Perhaps this line is a bit confusing, however.<br /><br />"This always happens when those offended try to ban things like this. Banning free speech/expression is almost always counter-productive as a tactic anyway, as this quite clearly shows."<br /><br />The second sentence appears to suggest they banned it, but the first clearly suggests only "try to ban". I guess the ambiguous nature of this is down to slightly unclear writing, I should have written "trying to ban free speech...." at the start of the second part, perhaps. I do think, however, if you read through the post carefully again it clearly suggests that the video has not been banned yet, there were just calls for it to be.<br /><br />There were calls for it to be banned and they were going to take the video down, as you said. No one forced them, you are right but the point of the post was simply that I actually don't want people to feel threatened enough to do things like this because of an over-the-top PC reaction to something. This continues to happen and it does quell controversy and having important conversations about things that really matter. <br /><br />I think being able to dispassionately discuss cultural differences and behaviour caused by culture is important in an inter-connected world and I do believe we can't do this at this moment in time as well as we should be able to.Smudgerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00449129060365290678noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8154452806180550551.post-46506249128650260182013-08-05T17:10:50.883-07:002013-08-05T17:10:50.883-07:00“ If we judge their behaviour to be down to their...“ If we judge their behaviour to be down to their culture we can often be wrong, but we can almost equally often be right. “<br /><br />I don’t see any statistical evidence offered here – by what percentage will we be wrong or right? – but at least by the qualifiers you’ve offered (‘almost equally often’) can I at least suppose that we’ll be wrong more often? In which case, where is the value in such a tactic?<br /><br />“ Hang on a minute, this is starting to sound a bit scary; weren't we warned about all this by George Orwell in 1984? “<br /><br />Um, no. Orwell was talking about organized and systematic control of thought and opinion by means of mechanisms of a large and supremely intrusive state, done intentionally with the intent to consolidate political power into a central source. When people speak with their own voices to oppose racist statement and repudiate racist thought, this is pretty much the opposite – it is, the cliché goes, the marketplace of ideas.<br /><br />In a free-speech society, racists have the right to speak racist ideas out loud. The rest of us have the right to point to it an d call it that, challenge it and discourage others from adopting such attitudes.<br /><br />“ People should be afraid of spouting racist nonsense, not just because of the social stigma attached to it, but because of the ridicule they receive from people who know they have no reason for it other than ignorance and prejudice. “<br /><br />You could have said this better: We should avoid spouting racist nonsense because it truly is nonsense, and speaking things that make no sense makes us appear stupid and ignorant - because we are. Actually, whether we appear this way or are ridiculed for it is irrelevant. We ought to avoid it because it represents nonviable patterns of cognition. It is just stupid, and that is reason enough.<br /><br />The song wasn’t banned, and it might be worth noting your error in saying so. Some bloggers complained about the perpetuation of stereotypes and the group behind it explained that it was a parody and said they were sorry that some people didn’t get the joke. In the end, they just decided to take it down from Youtube and iTunes rather than keep talking about it. <br /><br />They could have made another decision, and opened up a conversation, but they didn’t want to. It was their choice, though. No one forced them. It wasn’t banned.<br />The Bobsterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06326749412133802531noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8154452806180550551.post-54103853608978503442013-08-03T15:50:42.826-07:002013-08-03T15:50:42.826-07:00Yep, you're right should have included that as...Yep, you're right should have included that as it is a great point. Though, I only partly agree with your conclusion. <br /><br />Perhaps because I have always participated in sport in many different teams, I have been desensitised to offence in the name of having fun, but it seems to me that unless it is really threatening you have to take most attempts at fun at your expense in your stride. If you don't do this and always get upset it does nothing but keep you in the low status bracket and you don't get any respect. Maybe it shouldn't be that way, but showing offence will always keep you down. Not only this, but others taking offence on your behalf will also keep you down, which is what Western culture does with other cultures. By saying "those poor people who are being made fun of" you are inadvertently keeping them down. When it comes to human rights abuses and genuine discrimination or violence and threatening behaviour then fair enough, we all need to get upset. But poking fun? Such a reaction is always counter-productive.<br /><br />That video may have been in slightly bad taste, but it was harmless. Dumb and crude, perhaps. Racist and sexist? No, actually I don't think it was especially, at least not in a damaging way and the satire of the old stereotypes was pretty obvious. They did also hint at breaking the stereotype of Asian women being timid and in need of a white man to rescue her by making the Asian woman in the video sexy and confident, with them small and worshiping her from inside a cage. <br />Smudgerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00449129060365290678noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8154452806180550551.post-45693289402402582132013-08-03T15:15:11.662-07:002013-08-03T15:15:11.662-07:00Shit or not, is not the point, plenty of crap musi...Shit or not, is not the point, plenty of crap music out there. <br /><br />The people who got upset about it did a great job of keeping it quiet, though, didn't they? They promoted that previously unknown band to the world beautifully.Smudgerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00449129060365290678noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8154452806180550551.post-71971651354033955882013-08-03T10:29:45.691-07:002013-08-03T10:29:45.691-07:00I think your are missing that there is a power and...I think your are missing that there is a power and status dynamic in racism where it is "ok" for lower status victims of "ism"s (racism, classism, culturalism) to make fun or satirize those with a superiority complex. Black comedians can make fun of Whites, Poor can make fun of the Rich, Everyone can make fun of Americans, but not vice versa without risk of at least being in very poor taste or cruel. That video was dumb, crude, racist, and sexist, but I agree it shouldn't be banned. I can see how it caused an uproar and the makers should be called out on it being worse than harmless fun.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com