tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8154452806180550551.post7402130706569837928..comments2024-03-25T00:00:03.876-07:00Comments on South Korea Inside Out/Australia Inside Out: English Speaking Competitions: All Status and No Substance (and Certainly No Learning)Smudgerhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00449129060365290678noreply@blogger.comBlogger20125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8154452806180550551.post-192874719836780962013-07-06T16:50:11.173-07:002013-07-06T16:50:11.173-07:00A alternative approach is definitely needed. Whil...A alternative approach is definitely needed. While the student's ability in English is used as a gauge for their status and their parent's status, however, the appearance of being good at English is going to trump true ability and learning of the language.Smudgerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00449129060365290678noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8154452806180550551.post-22390346424842346322013-07-05T10:27:12.086-07:002013-07-05T10:27:12.086-07:00In my country since grade school and high school, ...In my country since grade school and high school, when it's time for english class we spent the whole hour speaking in english since that school is private well it's an english speaking zone. Maybe they should start implementing another approach just like what I said.Senhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06490058866466881258noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8154452806180550551.post-14540335126139960232013-06-27T20:00:29.260-07:002013-06-27T20:00:29.260-07:00http://wangjangnim.com/
Here you go Christopher.
...http://wangjangnim.com/<br /><br />Here you go Christopher.<br /><br />As a hagwon I do not organize speech contest, cause it will put me in the difficult situation of making one mother happy and all the others unhappy. Not a good trade off.TheBosshttp://wangjangnim.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8154452806180550551.post-7933404401008003602013-06-24T17:07:42.710-07:002013-06-24T17:07:42.710-07:00I think I am going to refuse to do translations an...I think I am going to refuse to do translations and corrections from now on in a speaking contest situation. Although, like I said in the article, it is difficult to refuse people who have asked for help through my wife as I know she will get a hard time from them if I say no.<br /><br />It is so sad that the appearance of learning is more important than actual learning itself, but I guess in a status obsessed culture it is to be expected. Still, despite this attitude Korea still makes as good an attempt at education as anywhere else in the world. I think everywhere is pretty bad in their own ways.Smudgerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00449129060365290678noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8154452806180550551.post-72024903928220535692013-06-23T09:30:42.086-07:002013-06-23T09:30:42.086-07:00I'm a professional Korean-English translator a...I'm a professional Korean-English translator and I have had more than a few requests for translations of kids' Korean-language essays for English speaking contests. I don't do them, but I do get requests, and I have no doubt that they then simply find someone who is willing. <br /><br />I think that, like so many things in Korea, what's considered important isn't learning; it's the appearance of learning. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8154452806180550551.post-64439012256406811102013-06-22T15:44:45.091-07:002013-06-22T15:44:45.091-07:00It does tend to show how buggered education is aro...It does tend to show how buggered education is around the world and the what we value in terms of what children learn within it, doesn't it. I know the UK is no better overall, that's for sure.Smudgerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00449129060365290678noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8154452806180550551.post-70069000229167179572013-06-22T15:41:25.791-07:002013-06-22T15:41:25.791-07:00Getting some great replies to this post, on here a...Getting some great replies to this post, on here and other sites, now I get the perspective of an actual speaking contest winner! Really interesting perspective, thank you.<br /><br />When I write things like this it can come across that all i am doing is complaining. I hope that Koreans who read my posts do understand that I actually do not think too ill of things in Korea. I really do have about as many issues with my own country's culture.<br /><br />In my writing, however, I am realising a reoccurring pattern with Korea and that is the common theme of status. The seeking and giving of status and respect seems to create an awful lot of issues here. In this case it appears to be prioritised instead of learning and creative potential with regards the essay writing. Perhaps the whole reason that Korea focuses so obsessively on reading, writing and grammar and not speaking and listening in English is so that they can iron out all possible errors and not ever have to make mistakes and lose face (status and respect).<br /><br />If I compare it to soccer; Koreans know all the tactics and theory, they know about the positions and the terminology and they may even practice dribbling around cones. But they never just play a game because they might lose. What is sad is that playing the game is the fun bit and losing is a lesson in life. So in English in Korea is a boring chore of constant theory and drills, with no fun (i.e. communicating with other people) and few lessons learned.<br /><br />Many thanks for commenting.<br />Smudgerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00449129060365290678noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8154452806180550551.post-77726263053757824402013-06-22T15:24:24.737-07:002013-06-22T15:24:24.737-07:00Thanks for the hagwon perspective. Seems counter-...Thanks for the hagwon perspective. Seems counter-intuitive, doesn't it, that the smartest students receive the most help. I think it is a combination of money - like you said - and status that brings this about. It is pretty sad that kids are used in this way.Smudgerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00449129060365290678noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8154452806180550551.post-59579198115427454892013-06-22T15:19:52.697-07:002013-06-22T15:19:52.697-07:00I never miss the opportunity to have good moan and...I never miss the opportunity to have good moan and I am guessing this will probably continue, don't worry.Smudgerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00449129060365290678noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8154452806180550551.post-91201602076837212642013-06-22T15:16:23.499-07:002013-06-22T15:16:23.499-07:00That's how it should be done and I think that ...That's how it should be done and I think that is a nice use of a foreign teacher. You must get to interact and help the students on a more personal basis, rather than just seeing them once a week in a class of 35 students. Seems to me that this is the way to encourage real learning and the questions after the speeches gives a more genuine idea of true English level. Smudgerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00449129060365290678noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8154452806180550551.post-37601727397953478382013-06-22T15:11:45.170-07:002013-06-22T15:11:45.170-07:00Always a pleasure, boss.
I pretty much know not...Always a pleasure, boss. <br /><br />I pretty much know nothing about Hagwon speaking contest but got a few replies to this post on here and on facebook from Hagwon teachers. The Hagwon element to this post was really just hagwon students asking for help for their public school contests. I hear, however, that hagwons also run similar competitions and they appear to be equally disliked by native teachers from what I gather.Smudgerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00449129060365290678noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8154452806180550551.post-46289732575154102972013-06-22T15:08:12.817-07:002013-06-22T15:08:12.817-07:00That's horrible. There are other times in Kor...That's horrible. There are other times in Korea, however, when I do something really simple and people are so thankful and even go so far to buy me gifts for what I've done. But usually, when I have done something I really would rather have not and have gone to real trouble, I receive and feel not the least bit of thanks, like you say. Perhaps Koreans feel like translation is almost a duty of a foreigner or anyone who can speak English who lives in their country. Duty plays a pretty big part in interactions like this.<br /><br />Or maybe it is just classic topsy-turvy land and there just ain't no rhyme or reason.Smudgerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00449129060365290678noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8154452806180550551.post-45623859347461805722013-06-22T11:12:44.781-07:002013-06-22T11:12:44.781-07:00Thanks for sharing your experience, very interesti...Thanks for sharing your experience, very interesting stuff about the "speaking" contest. Well, in Korea when they say it's a "speaking" contest, it means a "speech" contest. Therefore the more conversation type you might've thought for wouldn't happen. I know it can sound and appear to be awkward but that's how all the speaking contest was held on Korea. Even Korean speaking contests are done by written forms of paper and giving it as a speech. <br /><br />The speaking contest, isn't always about "who's a better speaker". it can about who actually held the contest in which school and how many times. Which will result as bringing honor and reputation to school. That could a reason why the teachers want it to proof read and ready to go. When I was participating in multiple speaking contest, as a 1.5 generation Korean American, they really expected a lot from me, and when I actually came out with some funny stuff to talk about, teachers were not that all happy about the content. However I did came back with multiple first prizes, so eventually it was okay, but never recognized as a "good speaker". <br /><br />It's really different to see Korea through a "Westernized" lens, and I think Korea did develop too quickly to make those adjustments with the foreign culture and it's own culture. But I still think more people who share their thoughts like you, and some people who understand both culture can make a big difference in the coming future. maybe.. just a thought :) Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05603575951111877694noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8154452806180550551.post-23231242670956809752013-06-22T03:54:33.008-07:002013-06-22T03:54:33.008-07:002nd best education system in the world2nd best education system in the worldAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8154452806180550551.post-63746756905839708512013-06-22T01:41:51.948-07:002013-06-22T01:41:51.948-07:00I've been a judge of a dozen or so speaking co...I've been a judge of a dozen or so speaking contests at various hagwons and have found that a primary purpose for these dog and pony shows (if not the singular purpose) is for hagwon directors to show off their brightest kids, the logic behind this being moms will see how good these kids are and hound their own brats into studying harder, thereby committing more money (and hours) to the hagwon. <br /><br />At my current school, all of the kids receive a short essay to memorize before the contest, but a handful of the really smart ones get personal attention from the director and some of the Korean teachers before class and on weekends, who practice pronunciation and emphasis, and change some of the words to make it sound more complicated. It's all rigged to make most of the kids -- the money makers -- look dumb or lazy in front of their parents, who usually don't understand the essay but can easily tell that their kid is losing in front of everyone.<br /><br />Aaron Crossenhttp://www.aaroncrossen.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8154452806180550551.post-51482738991695660372013-06-22T00:56:30.881-07:002013-06-22T00:56:30.881-07:00I enjoy your blog because you remind me of things ...I enjoy your blog because you remind me of things I dwelled on when I was 3-5 years in. Keep it up as long as you can. One day, things like the English contests being a joke will fade away and you won't care anymore. <br /><br />For me, editing company e-mail is more productive. The writer is actually receptive to your suggestions and is eager to learn from their mistakes. Plus, it's more profitable.<br /><br />Keep it up. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8154452806180550551.post-72770892603232543562013-06-21T22:41:34.866-07:002013-06-21T22:41:34.866-07:00How sad. At my school I (the foreign teacher) the ...How sad. At my school I (the foreign teacher) the main judge and while I help the students write it, I make sure the students are involved in the production. I also ask several impromptu questions after they've given their speeches. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8154452806180550551.post-45509770833811087132013-06-21T20:54:56.505-07:002013-06-21T20:54:56.505-07:00Interesting ..
You have given me food for thought...Interesting ..<br /><br />You have given me food for thought.<br /><br />Let me give it my point of view next week, see if we can compare notes :)TheBosshttp://wangjangnim.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8154452806180550551.post-91870634893525685702013-06-21T19:19:17.506-07:002013-06-21T19:19:17.506-07:00Sometimes the stupidity here is unfathomable. I ha...Sometimes the stupidity here is unfathomable. I had a rude man in a church once shove into my hands a 12 page academic paper and told my wife for me to check it. I spent about 20 minutes, gave it back to him, and heard not even a thank you. Such is Korea.J. Siemionhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16690864216542054613noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8154452806180550551.post-4733680511035964732013-06-21T19:12:22.602-07:002013-06-21T19:12:22.602-07:00Next time you are tasked with writing a student...Next time you are tasked with writing a student's essay, I suggest you print them out a copy of Swift's, "A Modest Proposal", and let them read that.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com