Saturday, February 22, 2014

Cosmic Justice in Sochi?

David W. Carmichael
So it seems Kim Yun Ah may have been cheated out of retaining her Olympic crown in the figure skating. Adelina Sotnikova could have had some home help from the judges to push the 'Ice Queen' into silver instead of the much anticipated gold that the Korean public demanded and felt she deserved. But it wasn't just the Korean public, apparently many observers from a range of different countries were confounded by the judges scoring.

On the other hand, there were some people who thought that Sotnikova had a more difficult routine and therefore scored more points despite a minor - but what appeared crucial - mistake during her performance.

In the wake of this controversy, everyone has become an expert figure skating judge, one way or the other. I myself, don't have a damn clue about how to score a figure skating routine.  From my perspective, Kim Yun Ah's routine looked flawless and beautiful and better than Sotnikovas (and Sotnikova's certainly not 5 points better), but what do I know? Nothing, absolutely nothing.  My thoughts don't matter regarding who actually won.

With this in mind then, let's assume, for the sake of argument, the decision was a scandalous one and that the Russians fixed the whole thing and cheated Kim Yun Ah and the Korean public.  If this is the case, it's wrong, annoying, and an example of sporting injustice.  But what about cosmic justice?

I find it slightly ironic that Korea's number one sports star, and someone whose performances mean so much to the country, may have fallen foul to a controversial home bias decision at an Olympics.  Why?  Because one of the most blatant examples of home advantage cheating at any Olympics was perpetrated by the Koreans themselves at the Seoul Olympics in 1988 when Roy Jones Jnr fought Korean Park Si Hun for gold in boxing.   You can see the full fight and judge for yourselves below:

Now, I'm not a boxing judge either, but this fight was the equivalent of a figure skater falling 5 times in a routine and still winning the gold in the face of an almost perfect performance by a competitor.  Everyone knows that this decision was highly motivated by what many Koreans thought were bias decisions by American judges at the Los Angeles Olympics in the boxing 4 years earlier.  The history is well summed up over at Gusts of Popular Feeling, along with some other issues regarding boxing at the games.

It is one thing getting even by a little cheating in a contentious, closely fought fight, but the obviously fraudulent decision in the Roy Jones fight was shameful and reflected badly on Korea.

Swings and roundabout then, and it seems rather apt that many Korean people feel cheated by the judges in Sochi, some might say it couldn't happen to a more deserving country.

It is tempting to think this way and to believe cosmic justice has been done.  But personally, I do not believe in justice of this kind.  If something was wrong then it was wrong.  If it was done dishonestly, then that is even worse.  And I know one thing for certain; if Kim Yun Ah really was the deserving winner and she has really been cheated out of a gold medal, then she does not deserve it, forget about Korea as a country.

The revenge aspect of the 1988 decision with Roy Jones is also something any right-minded person or Olympic organisers in a country would steer clear of.  One hopes - but does not expect - that Russian athletes will be treated fairly in 4 years time when Korea hold the next Winter Olympics in Pyeongchang in 2018.  Unfortunately, the likelihood is that if a Korean ends up battling a Russian for a gold medal in an important event (especially the figure skating), Korean organisers may see it as an opportunity for retribution. Let's hope this is not the case.

An Olympics of any kind presents both opportunities to flourish and fail for the host nation.  These days, it seems, people are waiting for what a country will do wrong in the lead-up to an Olympic games.  In Russia's case, there were question marks about morality (think stray dogs), of the construction of the venues, and the general organisation.  In London 2012 for the summer Olympics, questions were being raised before the start about the competency of security and of problems with dated infrastructure and poor transport.  In Pyeongchang in 2018, the worry will be fairness and impartiality.  Can South Korea, a country with a fiercely nationalistic mindset (it was about 90% Koreans who managed to crash the site, and all for figure skating!) manage to not interfere with the results of events?  The temptation for revenge was too great in 1988, so will it get the better of them 30 years later as well?

It will be a test for the character of a nation and it is an opportunity for Korea as a country to show they are above this kind of skulduggery and insecurity now.  They now understand the burn of being cheated like Roy Jones Jnr.  I hope they can react to Kim Yun Ah's disappointment in the best possible way, rise above it in four years time and do their best to be fair to all athletes who have trained so hard for the chance to be Olympic champions.  They and the world demand that they be judged on their performances, not on where they were born.


  1. "it is an opportunity for Korea as a country to show they are above this kind of skulduggery and insecurity now. They now understand the burn of being cheated like Roy Jones Jnr."

    Those two sentences contradict each other. Either Korea feel the burn for being cheated ("like Roy Jones Jr") or it is "skulduggery" they should "be above".

    It can't be both.

    1. I don't see what the contradiction is. Perhaps it is an awkwardly phrased piece though, so let me try to explain myself.

      In 2018 the Koreans will have the opportunity to show they are above the kind of cheating they perpetrated in 1988 (that they have moved on) and Russia may have done in 2014 (with Kim Yun Ah and Sotnikova). They now know the feeling of being burned by possible cheating, so hopefully this will help them understand and not stoop to it in 2018.

      Does that make better sense?

  2. ‘ Unfortunately, the likelihood is that if a Korean ends up battling a Russian for a gold medal in an important event (especially the figure skating), Korean organisers may see it as an opportunity for retribution. ‘

    Well, congratulations. You are the very first, and personally I hope you will be the last, to express something close to a ‘likelihood’ that Korean event organizers will bear a grudge and behave improperly in the Olympics that will be held here. Talk about rushing to convict – this comes close to seeking punishment in the court of opinion not only prior to any arrest but heck, long before there is even opportunity for a crime.

    The facts as we see them now tell something different – we see evidence that Korea is maturing as a nation and that Korean people are learning when and how emotional responses can and should take place. There has been some outcry in Korean cyberspace about this but there also has been exactly the same amount of emotion expressed by non-Koreans about this decision of the judges. And people here understand that despite online petitions and tears, this decision will stand, as it should even if flawed and even if shown to be corrupt.

    Choe Sang-hun is one of Korea’s finest journalists, recipient of the Pulitzer and on the staff of the NYTimes for several years now. Here is from today’s commentary:

    ‘ But at least so far, the fuss appeared mostly to end there.
    South Koreans have in the past responded with occasional outrage at what they perceived as biased rulings at the Olympics. A fencer who felt wronged at the 2012 Olympic Games in London refused to leave the piste, and the police once felt compelled to protect the United States Embassy in Seoul after a Korean speed skater lost to an American. But this time, there seemed to be a conscious effort to pull back. (…)
    Chung Hee-joon, a professor of sports science at Dong-A University, attributed the change in part to recent self-reflection on an excessive nationalism in South Korean sports and other areas that critics liken to methamphetamine. ‘

    If you will allow me, the kind of rank speculation you are making here is really not called for by the facts of what we are observing. If anything, we should be nodding approvingly at the behavior and attitudinal expressions we are seeing from Korean citizens right now.

    You are not being fair, sir, and not least to yourself – look, see, observe: the way people are reacting now is light-years removed from what we have seen in the past.

    1. Think you are over-reacting somewhat.

      All I said it that they may see it as an opportunity for revenge in 4 years time. I did not say they would. I think this is a fair speculation for any country given the perceived injustice in this case and the high profile nature of Kim Yun Ah in Korea, but Korea will be looked at more closely because of the controversy at the 1988 Olympics.

      Again you post evidence that backs up what I say even right up to 2012 that Koreans don't take the feeling of being treated unfairly in sporting events well. Perhaps they took it better this time, but actually I think almost breaking records on and the constant coverage of this issue tells otherwise. An improvement maybe, but I think I am totally justified in what I write in this post.

      "exactly the same amount of emotion expressed by non-Koreans about this decision of the judges"

      Other countries were raising eyebrows and maybe some were outraged, but come on, do you really believe non-Koreans were just as upset as Koreans? You can't be serious.

      Listen to yourself, Robert, and see what you are doing. You are misrepresenting me and fooling yourself.

    2. I think it’s fair for the record to show here that you called me a delusional liar for no other reason than having different perspective on this matter. I think it’s proper to note for readers of your blog that we discussed it elsewhere on other social media venues, and that you’ve pledged not to go the route of personal insults and accusations again.

      Still, as I noted previously, your entire thesis on this post is little more than an accusation, a j’accuse for a crime that has yet to occur but that you have said several times now is ‘not unlikely.’ I don’t think this ‘misrepresents’ you at all – I think it is precisely what you are up to here.

      And what is the evidence of history you base it all on? Precisely one incident, over two and a half decades ago. Just that, and nothing more.

      More to say. Scroll to the bottom.

    3. I think it is fair for the record that I never called you a delusional liar, and I will let the readers of my meagre blog decide if that is a correct and fair translation of what I said. It specifically related to what you wrote and my apology was because I didn't want to offend you. But now you are twisting my words again, I actually think you over-reacted to what I said. My apology was for using emotive language as I said, not for calling you a delusional liar, which I never did. I think it is fair enough to accuse someone of 'fooling themselves' when that is what I think, this doesn't constitute you being a liar in the sense people recognise what a liar would be. Delusional, I don't think, but misguided, I think you are, yes.

      To be honest, I have lost a little respect for you recently because you have a condescending, morally superior tone in how you address me. It was summed up by your original comment on Korea bloggers that accused me of shoddy work, without explanation on a facebook page with lots of other co-bloggers. This was uncalled for and if you wanted to write such things you should have done it on my blog and explained it at the same time. Then when I proved your accusation that my premise was wrong with two articles, no apology was forthcoming.

      My reasons for surmising that the next Winter Olympics will be under the spotlight for fairness regarding Korea is explained by the comment by stevieg4ever and my reply to him, I am not going to write it again.

      PS: Don't accuse me of calling you a liar again. And I think an apology from you would bring some level of respect back between us, which I feel has been lost somewhat.

  3. Put it this way, the last two major sporting events that Korea has hosted have led to a number of scandalous and biased decisions in favour of the host nation: I’m referring to the 1988 Olympics and the 2002 World Cup and this is both highly concerning and disturbing.

    Much like you I do not feel I am in a position to judge as I next to nothing about skating. It seems to me like Yuna opted for the safe route (with a double axe handle or something) and Sotnikova went for the more ambitious performance (including a triple-double, the most complex of moves a skater can attempt so we are told). I kept reading verbs such as 'stumbled' and 'fell' mainly in Korean centric web spaces but that isn't what happened; what actually happened is that Sotnikova did a jump and simply landed on two feet where as a lot of people would have us believe she was doing rolly pollies across the ice or something to that effect.

    But that said, there is a lot of foul play concerning the judges and, from my estimation, neutral and public opinion seems to be on Yuna's side. I have sympathy for Yuna; she seems as modest and humble a sports personality as you are likely to meet or see, I don’t know a great deal about her but that’s how it appears to me from a distance. The Korean public however I have no sympathy for whatsoever.
    My sympathy for Korea expired earlier in the week when netizens started posting threatening messages to a British speed skater. That is simply not on and unbecoming of decent and acceptable behaviour. It just seems to me that every major sporting event has to have some controversy involving Korea; sometimes I really feel as if Koreans just enjoy feeling sorry for themselves. The 1988 Olympics in regards to boxing was unbridled chaos from start to finish; riots, Korean coaches hitting the referrers, one biased decision after another, full out riots with even the security guards getting in on the action. It wasn’t only Roy Jones jr. that lost his bout; many other boxers succumbed to poor and corrupt officiating.

    The problem with major sporting events and Korea is that competition brings out the most primitive aspects of nationalism in Koreans. It will be the same in Brazil this summer, just wait. Where, by the way, they face Russia in one of the qualifiers.

    The Olympics is rife with corruption and scandals and has been for a very long time. The IOC is probably the most corrupt international sporting body in the world, even more than FIFA, and that's saying something. Truth be told it will be the same in 평창 next time, with Korea getting the benefit of the doubt over big decisions and judges and panels favouring them. I am very suspect of events that have judges, panels and whatnot; it just seems to be asking for trouble at some stage or other.

    1. Korea are certainly not over their issues with nationalism and sport, at least as far as I can see. Just in this Olympics you have had a record-breaking petition at for a figure skating contest and threats to another athlete from a different country for speed skating; an over-reaction don't you think? Now, of course, it is not all Koreans, but quite a significant minority seem to be driven to this kind of behaviour and I think it does have something to do with the culture of nationalism. Their behaviour might have improved since 1988, but I don't think it is unfair to suspect that they might be tempted to sway the judges in 4 years time. Their previous history and current behaviour make this an inevitable conclusion to draw, along with (as you say) the general corruption in the Olympics. I wonder how long it will take before someone accuses me, you or someone else of racism or 'culturalism' for drawing such a conclusion. The conclusion is drawn from history and evidence, nothing more.

      I too have great sympathy for Kim Yun Ah, though. A true professional and her record is astonishing, I have always been a fan.

  4. I'm with Chris on this; crystal clear here. If that Korean had any honour he would have given the medal to Roy as the poor man's face was a sight to behold. He bloody well did not deserve it.

    1. Wait...was that what this blog post was actually about?

  5. If you are familiar with the Eurovision Song Contest then tactical voting is no particular surprise. Personally I find it quite sad that people care so much one way or the other when it's only days since those poor uni freshmen died. (Not a barb at the author of this blog, rather a general comment.)

    1. Yes, I agree. The Eurovision Song Contest is just a political farce and people care far too much about it and the Olympics as well. I mean 2 millions signatures on for figure skating! Think of all the causes promoted by that site and I think the figure skating issue has got maybe the second or third highest ever (and it is still going I think), that is really sad.

      You're dead right, those poor students dying in Busan should be the priority.

  6. Who were the real victims in the 1988 Olympics? The obvious answer is Roy Jones, and the American fans - and that is true, but it doesn't go far enough.

    Think a bit more. Park Si-hun had trained his whole life, as all do who aspire to Olympic grandeur, and at the end of the match the judges told him to raise his gloves in victory. He did so, thinking that all the energy he had spent in his life up until that moment had come to the conclusion that he had worked so hard for. He was proud and happy, and it was the pride of the righteous man who had earned the reward so long sought. Further, he believed he had brought pride to his entire nation, a badge to show the world the triumph of a decades-long struggle out of mud huts and Third World economic status.

    And then the video showed that something was amiss. People who could count were able to see that the American had landed many more blows than the Korean man was able to. Later investigation did show that the judges were guilty of malfeasance and those individuals were banned from any further participation in future Olympics.

    Mr Park won the gold, but he lost the glory, and through no fault of his own. We learn also that he later apologized to Mr Jones – but why should he have had to do that? He had committed no crime. He had fought hard and given the best performance he was able, and then, and then … it was taken away. Yes, he kept the medal but it was worthless to him. I feel sure that he wishes he had never been awarded the thing.

    What that case showed was that non-Korean officials (foreigners) can be suborned – can be bought - very cheaply, and made to sell their responsibility and integrity for next to nothing, for no more than dinner and drinks. And when caught, they pay a penalty and all is washed clean. Foreigners at large never felt any shame themselves for the criminal actions of these judges, yet Koreans as a nation have been asked to feel such, and they have done so. That’s rather odd, when you think about it.

    East Asia harbors shame-based cultures. In the west, we tend to favor pride, and sometimes guilt. Guilt can be bought off and paid for, with punishment or a fine, and then we go on.

    Shame lingers, though, and it spreads beyond the individuals who committed wrongdoing.

    And non-Koreans will continue to use that incident 1988 to speculate that other Koreans in the future will do likewise, as if several decades make no difference.

    The entire nation of South Korea felt ashamed when that scandal occurred, a quarter of a century ago, and though only a few Koreans were involved as perpetrators, all who experienced the exhilaration of one of their number winning gold felt the same disappointment – and humiliation – when the facts became known. And Koreans today who are old enough do still remember that shame.

    1. Yes, I have also thought feeling more sorry for the cheaters than the cheated is the way to go. You're right.

    2. And the non-Korean judges were more to blame because they gave in to (significant) pressure.

    3. I agree with the first part of what your wrote; I don't think the Korean fighter will ever like that was a victory but, then again, he landed 30 odd hits to Jones' 80 odd. That said, I do think you are missing a few key facts in your piece, Robert.

      A lot of people felt that Korea was using fear and intimidation tactics to their advantage. They assaulted an official from New Zealand in one contest; he had to be escorted out of the arena and took the first flight back home and subsequently left the sport for good. This incident, and the strong arm tactics that the Koreans employed, was said to have worked in their favour because other foreign officials felt intimidated in the aftermath. So to say that foreign officials should shoulder the blame is rather disingenuous I must say.

      Here is a link, its rather long:

      Bulgarian, Italian, many other fighters got robbed, not just Roy Jones Jr.

  7. It’s a different situation now than it was in 1988. It’s different today than during World Cup a decade ago when nationalism ran so high and strong that I could see the distrust and anomie in the eyes of my students at a school where I was the only American teacher in my school on the day when the Korean soccer team squared up against the US - and I was grateful when that game ended in a draw, let me tell you. Things are different now than when the upset happened with Apolo Ono. The reactions of Korean people right now are far different than we saw in those cases.

    The match with Kim Yuna and the Russian teenager was broadcast live here in Seoul, but it was at 4 in the morning, and I’ve yet to meet a Korean person among my students or adult acquaintances who took the trouble to stay up that late and watch it happen in real time. That would not have been true during Olympics and World Cup competitions just a few years ago, or the last World Cup in S Africa, and it’s likely that people here no longer see their national self-worth solely determined by the outcome of sporting events.

    Today, I’m not seeing any demonstrations in front of the Russian Embassy, no candlelight vigils, and foreigners are not fearful of their safety as we walk the streets – again, this is quite in contrast to the past.

    Most expected ‘Queen Yuna’ to take the gold again – the record shows that she has never participated in any international competition without coming home with some kind of metallic object in her hands, and this time her only ‘defeat’ is coming back with silver when she had hoped for gold.

    But she will do a bit more for posterity. I’ve heard many here say that her composure and stoicism in the face of all this is providing an exemplary lesson for young Koreans who witness it, and personally I find it somewhat inspiring as well, though I have never cared much for sports.. And there is this:

    The rules for judging such events, I think, will almost certainly be changed, regardless of whether evidence of corruption is ever found. There is one thing that just about everyone agrees with. Ms Adelina fell, or appeared to have, and regardless of what else the judgment criteria might say, this alone would almost certainly have disqualified her from any kind of prize in previous Olympic competitions.

    An online petition, and some angry comments in cyberspace. Might I gently suggest that compared to previous kinds of protests we’ve seen here in Korea – effigy and flag burnings, uni students and labor leaders hospitalized from altercations with riot police, thousands-strong crowds with fists raised to heaven, even bad folk songs – a petition is a mild response and a step in the right direction.

    I think it’s worth our time to seriously reflect on what we see, and where trends are heading – I think it is a mistake to focus entirely on exactly one incident decades in the past as some kind of indication of what to expect from the future.

    1. I'll be honest Robert, at the moment I am training very hard and soon I will be back to work and doing extra classes after work. Your replies to me are about three times longer than my posts, which I am struggling to get done also (plus facebook). Combined with the fact I really don't think you acknowledge my arguments, causing me to have to repeat myself many times, I don't have the time or the inclination to debate with you anymore. I am not getting anything out of these exchanges other than a headache, sorry.

  8. I agree - I don't think that it is justice to cheat an athlete out of what many believe was a deserved gold medal because of an injustice committed two decades ago that had nothing to do with her, regardless of how much you dislike Koreans.

    1. Basically, one shouldn't want to yearn for revenge. The best way to promote one's country is to behave in the best way possible and be fair on all, regardless of history. This is how I hope Korean organisers will behave in 2018 in Pyeongchang.

    2. The problem is that you are making it sound that you think that there is some kind of national responsibility for the actions of a few individuals. We don't know why in S. Korea in 1988 and at Sochi in 2014 the judges gave the scores they did. It could be individuals with business interests, crooks, or even investors in a sport who want to see the discipline take off in the country who bribe or pressure judges to give skewed scores.

      For example, business interests in expanding boxing into NE Asia would be given a huge boost if there was a NE Asian Olympic boxing champion. Your presumption is that it is some kind of nationalism involved when there just is not any proof of that. Every Olympics has had controversy - even in London two years ago there were several complaints about favoritism and cheating for the Brits in boxing and cycling events. But to suggest that this is about national pride is naive and a little silly.

      Sport is big business and I would not put it past those with business interests to pressure or persuade judges to give good scores to athletes that they think would be good to sell the company's product.

      So it is extremely childish to suggest that "people learn their lesson" by having the "same thing done to them" since you just don't know how any of these suspicious results came about and who was behind it.

    3. You're right, I am arguing that there is some national responsibility for the actions of a few individuals because the nationalistic attitudes of a nation affect the behaviour of individuals of that nation. Not always, you're right, but sometimes. In the case of the 1988 Olympics there was a clear history or revenge being a factor. I.e. Korea as a nation were upset over results in LA, so some individuals acted on the attitude of a nation to sway the results in Seoul and as another commenter pointed out not just in Roy Jone's case (also it was not just a few individuals, Korean fans were raucous and intimidatory in the boxing events). There is a lot of evidence to suggest these poor decisions were motivated by nationalism and zero evidence to suggest they were motivated by business. No doubt business can play a role sometimes, but I can't see how it can in the case of Seoul and I can't really see it in Sochi either, unless it is promoting Russian business interests. And anyway, as I said the case of corruption is less clear-cut in Sochi.

      I think it is fair enough to complain about national pride being an issue in the London Olympics too, I would be open to a closer inspection of results. However, what you are missing out is Korea's level of nationalism and level which is not quite matched by Britain at the moment (there is a more obsessive nature about sport and national pride in Korea), although they are certainly not without it, questions should be asked of host nations on results because we know it can happen. If everyone were as clean as a whistle, why do we have neutral referees in international sporting events? You can't always have neutral grounds in sporting events, someone needs to host.

      Remember, I was being hypothetical in this post; I was saying what if Sochi was another example of corruption, even if it wasn't, it is clear many Korean people felt hard done by and many will assume they have been cheated as a nation out of a gold medal for their favourite sports star. They will know the feeling of being cheated therefore, whether they were in fact cheated or not. My argument is they should take these negative feelings and react in the best possible way, empathise with those who get cheated and not take revenge when they might have the chance to, take the higher moral ground. My doubts as to whether they can, come from a combination of reasons I and stevieg4ever have already explained, but in the post I used the 88 Olympics, an over-zealous national pride, and just my opinion based on experience of the attitude towards nationalism and sport in Korea.

      A national/cultural attitude to justice and fairness in the next games instead of focusing too much on the status of results will help individuals act in a more fair and just manner. To me it is an obvious case of a nation's cultural attitude affecting behaviour of individuals of that nation.

    4. You either did not read or did not understand what I wrote. There is no "they" - it is obvious that you (creepily) want to hold "them" (the Koreans) somehow responsible for what happened to Roy Jones in 1988, when you have not even come close to showing that there was indeed some kind of nationalism involved.

      Are you really suggesting that there was some kind of national conspiracy in 1988 that was somehow known by "them" which makes "them" responsible for what could have been a single unplanned act of national pride on the part of one judge, an act of pressure from business interests, or even, perhaps, the work of betting gangs, or even political reasons?

      A "national/cultural attitude" has absolutely no bearing on how sportsmen, judges, gangsters, or people with business interests behave.

      I cannot actually believe that you have written what you did - it is so...stupid. The Koreans don't like to feel as though they have been cheated, so now that they have experienced what it is like, "they'(?) will somehow ensure that "they" don't act unfairly again, even though "they" had nothing to do with the issue in the first place.

      That's the logic of a 3-year-old, or a not-too-bright adult.

    5. "A "national/cultural attitude" has absolutely no bearing on how sportsmen, judges, gangsters, or people with business interests behave."

      And you know this, how? I would argue of course it does, otherwise, why do people behave generally differently in different parts of the world?

      "They", yes, "They". Koreans compete in the Olympics under a team named "Korea", what are we to call them? They are separated from others by nationality.

      Watch this, kinda backs up what I say: and read the linked artcile from the Guardian in the post and read the link to Gusts of Popular Feeling and read the series of posts he did on the 1988 Olympics. Roy Jones decision was just the tip of the iceberg in the boxing as well. There were plenty of home bias decisions.

      I am not suggesting a national conspiracy, what I am suggesting is that over-zealous nationalism in Korea was a big factor in influencing officials. The feeling of being wronged in LA brought this to a head. From the sources I have read, I think history is on my side. I have never read a single articlee or watched any documentary about the boxing in Seoul that posits any other explanation. So if I do have the logic of a three year old, I am at least in good company.

    6. Koreans are Koreans, British are British, Americans are Americans, etc. People are identifiable by groups and different groups exhibit different behaviours, not always but often. Patterns can be identified in their behaviour and this used to explain actions, sometimes of individuals with a given country. E.g. Japanese; THEY usually bow when they say hello. There is nothing sinister about using the word 'they' in such ways.

    7. "And you know this, how? I would argue of course it does, otherwise, why do people behave generally differently in different parts of the world?"

      You know I'm actually starting to wonder if this is just a satire blog doing a send-up of bigoted ex-pats.

      You don't know who - if anyone - pressured or bribed judges in Korea, you don't why or how they might have done it, and you certainly have not shown that what happened in 1988 is in any way different to what happened in 2012 in London. You don't even know anything about the judges in 1988.

      In short, there are any number of reasons why there is unfairness in the Olympics - and other sporting events - all of which require a far more sophisticated examination than your silly 3-year-old reasoning can provide.

      The "Koreans" won't learn from Sochi because "they" were not involved in what happened in 1988 - you don't know who was involved. It could easily have been non-Koreans with business interests, or betting gangs. Your points are silly and childish.

    8. I have said all I need to and given you some links, I would only be repeating myself, if I argued further. Thanks for commenting.

    9. Well, it is your links and the 3-year-old reasoning that is unimpressive. But fair enough, thanks for having me.

    10. 'Anonymous' you are a tool. If anyone is being silly, stupid or has the reasoning of a three year old then its you. Your condescending tone does nothing to elevate your tenuous arguments.
      Come back when the family brain cell in back in your possession.

    11. Stevieg4ever you are a tool too! So there!